Jon Downes has apologised sort of, regarding not acknowledging the hairs found by the WPR or not mentioning that Jonathon McGowan has found leopard hairs before.
Out came the usual excuse, oft used by politicians. "I didn't know", "I forgot", "I didn't realise", "no snub intended" etc etc etc.
But of course he missed the point I was making. Far from the hairs being found and claimed as a first, proving the existance of big cats in the UK, they were neither a first for the CFZ members, nor were they the only ones found and tested at the Weird Weekend. Both the work of Jonathon McGowan and the WPR show this.
It makes you wonder if The Highland Tiger hadn't brought this up, would Jon Downes still be sitting on his throne, beaming from ear to ear, proclaiming to the world "Big Cats Exist and it was the CFZ who proved it".
In reality this was all a publicity stunt that unravelled and quickly backfired, leaving Jon Downes bactracking and apologising as fast as his legs could carry him.
Perhaps when Jon decides in future to stir things with other organisations, he should check he has all the facts in front of him.
Finally just a word of caution to the Wiltshire Phenomena Research Group. By all means collaborate with the CFZ, but do so with your eyes wide open. Many independant groups over the years have worked with the CFZ . Very few, if any, continue to do so today.
It makes you wonder why?
Posts
Kalanoro, Spirit or Real?
5 hours ago
Another word of caution for Wiltshire Phenomena Research Group beware the Highland Tiger for he is a bitter creature. Like his wild namesake this animal is shy and elusive but when approached will spit bile at all regardless of their intentions
ReplyDeleteDear Mr CFZ Anonymous.
ReplyDeleteUnlike the CFZ, I will not censor comments because I disagree with the poster.
And yet for all my "bitterness", it seems that everytime I write something about the CFZ, the end result is usually an apolgy from Jon Downes or changes on the CFZ website.
I have writen nothing that is untrue, and everything I write can be verified by anyone with access to a PC.
But it doesn't stop CFZ supporters from threatening me with legal action. Problem is, you can't sue someone from telling the truth.
My aim is to put the facts out there, along with my thoughts. It is up to the reader to decide on the validity of them and act accordingly.
Dear Mr Highland Pussycat.
ReplyDeleteJust to let you know Mr Anonymous is not Mr CFZ Anonymous, I have checked the family tree and as far as I can see we are not even related. Without your mention of them I wouldn’t have even known that they existed at all.
I rather belong to the greater Anonymous comments family of which there are many members
Luv xxx
I do apologise, but without appearing to sound racist, all you anonymouses look alike to me.
ReplyDelete:)
If you were to wear something distinctive next time, I would realise that it was you, and not some CFZ lackey.
:)
In that case I shall no longer go as Mr Anonymous of the greater anonymous comments family
ReplyDeleteInstead I shall go by the rather catchy Quis custodiet ipsos custodes hopefully this will be distinctive enough
I am the founder of Wiltshire Phenomena Research and I can confirm we collaborate with nobody. We is too cool for all that ;)
ReplyDeleteJELOUS COWARDS SOUND LIKE SPOILT BABIES
ReplyDeleteSurprise, surprise, after the most successful Weird Weekend ever highland tiger has crawled out from under his fifth encrusted stone to bleat and whine like a petulant five year old. What a miserable coward, hiding behind a pseudonym. A real man would be un-afraid to use his real name. I wonder if the little saddo realizes that we know exactly who he is and were he lives.
I’ve not bothered posting on his infantile and tawdry blog before because I simply can’t be bothered. I have better things to do, writing and research for example. But now his feeble outbursts need some comments.
So what if the Weird Weekend was a little down on numbers? At least we RAN A CONFERENCE. The BCIB have repeatedly shown how inept they were at doing this, needing the CFZ to step in and save them at one point. Just like they needed us to publish their god awful, boring year books. Their one and only effort by themselves looked as if it was done on a home computer by a schoolboy circa 1984!
We offered the hairs out in the spirit of sharing data and in order to get independent confirmation. Only a spiteful, underhanded moron would try to twist it around to make us look like we want other people to pay for our own. I’m unsurprised as highland tiger will atomically attack anything a CFZ member does. If one of us saved a hundred kids from a burning orphanage he would find some way to post a nasty snipe at us, miserable coward.
Why is he doing this? Jealousy, simple as that. The CFZ have been around the world in search of unknown animals, visiting exotic, remote and dangerous locations that they could never dream of going to. Then when we return we share our findings and information with everyone. We have a publishing company that has over sixty titles out. The CFZ are known world wide. Its members are invited to speak at august venues such as the Natural History Museum and the Grant Museum of Zoology. Jon and I are sharing our latest findings at the Fortean Times Unconvention. Do I see anyone from BCIB on the line up? No, because no one take you seriously. History will remember the CFZ and forget BCIB and highland tiger. No one goes to your blog or reads your one shabby little excuse for a book. Already we have done more than you will ever do. Think on that as you sit there behind your keyboard ready to spew more bile like the school weed gossiping about other people he’s too frightened to speak to face to face. I’m of to India to hunt the yeti. Were are you going?
All this childish, bitter, temper tantrums by highland tiger and other is down to the fact that CFZ members are doing something valid and worth while instead of wasting their time in babyish attacks on other people. On that note I’ll sign off and get back to the article I was writing instead of wasting more time on utter none-entities like highland tiger.
Well....finally someone with some back bone speaks!!!!! I don't find anything childish about HT's posts. What I do find is a lot of unanswered questions that he presents and the "truth" being exposed. The printing of over sixty titles means nothing more than the one that has one book in print, when you are the one doing the printing. I wish you a lot of luck looking for your Hindu Yeti. BUT....unless YOU bring back a photo, or some "REAL" evidence, you can consider it another MonsterQuest type bust. If you happen to be there and some evidence is found by someone else....don't claim it to be the CFZ that is the FIRST to find it, or that the CFZ is the first to recognize it. Remember.....someone else has already laid claim to its existence....otherwise....you would have never known about it!! If you want to dispute facts....then dispute them. If you want to answer some of the unanswered question brought up on this blog...then make the truth be known. It is all that is asked. But you bantering about personal attacks when you are doing the same......well......who is the mental midget that thinks an argument can be won over the Internet?
ReplyDeleteI thank you Mr Freeman,
ReplyDeleteYour post is just what I expected from a senior member of the CFZ. As all the world can see this is how the CFZ react to other organisations. (I note that we finally have the full story behind your zoological qualifications, or lack of them. It took long enough.)
Why are you attacking the BCIB I just can't understand it. There was never a need to even mention the BCIB in connection with your leaopard hairs. It was done in a childish attempt of one upmanship.
Your comment is in a similar vein.
Childish rants more akin to to playground taunts. You know the type, "my organisation is better than yours nah nah nah nah nah".
Yes you do have a publishing company with 60 titles, (athough I believe it is a non profit making company). However a vast majority of those 60 titles are books by CFZ members, With more than half of them written or compiled by either yourself or Jon Downes.
It is a vanity press nothing more nothing less. I have yet to see any of those titles in my local Waterstones or WH Smith. I'd be interested to see the sales figures of these books. I doubt many have sold much more than one hundred.
Good luck with your next venture Yeti Hunting. I assume you are paying for it out of your own pocket. Also I'd like to congratulate you on the evidence you will collect on your trip. I can guarantee that this evidence will include some of the following.
1. You will hear a strange noise or see a dark shadow outside of your tent. This will be claimed as a yeti
2. You will find an indistinct print. This will be claimed as a yeti
3. You will find a witness who saw a yeti only last week.
4. You will find some hair on a twig. This will be claimed as from a yeti
Good luck on your boys adventure, but past results of the CFZ lead me to believe that you won't come back with any definitive proof of a yeti. Although I would love to be proved wrong
Oh and just a reply to your comment
ReplyDelete"Their one and only effort by themselves looked as if it was done on a home computer by a schoolboy circa 1984!"
I suggest you take a little look at your own house magazine which comes out every now and then. "Animals and Men". I was producing better quality school magazines in the lates 70's using a battered old typewriter and an old Xerox machine. The type in "Animals and Men" is often blurred and smudged and the pictures are usually just as bad with very little detail.
People in glass houses etc.
And finally,
ReplyDelete"No one goes to your blog or reads your one shabby little excuse for a book"
For the record, I have not written a book either with a real publisher or with a vanity publisher. I'm assuming you think I have a connection with the BCIB. Well I can assure you the Highland Tiger is not a member of any organisation. Never has been, never will be. I am just someone with an interest in cryptozoology, and an ability to read between the lines and sniff out horse doo dah..
Strange that you claim that no-one reads this blog. 500+ people from 33 different countries, (according to google analytics) in the last week says differently. Not bad for an unpublicised blog discussing an off beat fringe topic. Probably more readers than the numbers of books the CFZ have sold this year.
This is not the first time that Mr Freeman has had cause to bad mouth other organisations. See the article below.
ReplyDeletehttp://cryptozoologythetruth.blogspot.com/2010/05/centre-for-fortean-zoology-good-bad-and.html
It seems that this unqualified "zoologist" has quite an opinion on other researchers. Which of course he is perfectly entitled to. But you have to ask, if Mr Freeman is such a great zoologist (according to Mr Downes), why is he not working for a mainstream zoological organisation instead of a fringe organisation like the CFZ. One does wonder.
Dear Highland Tiger
ReplyDeleteLet me introduce myself I am Glen Vaudrey and yes I am a member of the CFZ but please don’t hold that against me.
I am only replying in regard to a question that you have raised regarding CFZ publications and your statement of it being a Vanity Press.
It is incorrect to say that the CFZ Press is a Vanity Press, for the record and for anyone interested a Vanity Press is when the publisher is a publishing house that publishes books at the author's expense this is not the case with the CFZ. How do I know this, through the experience of having a book published by them at no point has money been paid to the publisher by me or by anyone acting on my behalf. And yes I do get royalties
Now regarding your second point of not being able to find a copy of any CFZ books in branches of either Waterstones or WH Smiths.
I note that your lair is in the far north of the Scottish Highlands I am not sure exactly were but I can say that you can find my book The Mystery Animals of the British Isles: The Western Isles (ISBN 9781905723423) stocked in Scottish Waterstones branches in Ayr, Glasgow and Inverness. I don’t know if any of those locations are local to yourself in you lair but it is certainly worth having a look for. If you do buy a copy and want it signing I am more than happy to do that for you.
All the best
Glen
Well, you have been very rude about the CFZ, Messrs Downes and Freeman in particular, so is it really any wonder that you provoked such a reaction?
ReplyDeleteYes, one SHOULD ask questions, but there are ways and means, and you seem to have chosen to attack and mock with vitriolic and snide comments at every opportunity.
Whatever happened to civilised debate? Of treating one another in a gentlemanly manner?
I peronally joined the CFZ because I thought they were a worthy organisation. They are people who are passionate about what they do. They have no overt agenda, and they certainly are not a front for a money-making scam.
Do you seriously believe that the books the CFZ publishes bring in the big bucks? These are books that appeal to a niche market - none of them are going to be best sellers or runaway success stories. They simply aren't mainstream enough.
I think it is fantastic that the CFZ is publishing such titles in the first place. Without independent publishers such as the CFZ, such niche-interest titles simply wouldn't see the light of day.
What a pity you couldn't have come along to the Weird Weekend in person, gotten involved, asked questions, etc. But judging by your concerns about where the money goes to, I doubt you'd have wanted the CFZ to have "profited" from your attendance.
So, come on, how about it? Enough of the flaming, snide comments and accusations already. It is possible to raise concerns and ask questions without resorting to any of that kind of behaviour.
Dear HT
ReplyDeleteI would be very wary of using phrases like
"I have writen nothing that is untrue, and everything I write can be verified by anyone with access to a PC."
I took your advice - and what did I discovered...
With a PC and the net, these days you can find evidence that backs you up, but more compelling evidence that also proves that you are completely wrong.
Having read all the above I find myself more intrigued by the work of the CFZ and may well apply for membership.
Thanks for bringing them and the excellent work they carry out to my attention
To be honest, I know of several well-known book retailers across the northern counties of England that sell and have sold copies of CFZ publications. I have read numerous books by Richard Freeman, as well as other associated members, and found them to be extremely well researched and interesting. I'd personally recommend them to anyone interested in cryptozoology.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies, Highland Tiger, but I really can't see your gripe with the books offered by the CFZ. Nor, for that matter, Jonathan Downes and Richard Freeman.
I'm no fool, and I certainly can't see anything wrong with the way the Centre For Fortean Zoology handle themselves or publish their work. Period!
Peace J
Dear Glen, thanks for posting. Yes you are correct with the exact defintion of a vanity press, in that people pay to get a book published, and make any profits by selling the books themselves. However I see little difference between that and what the CFZ Press does. Most of the titles if not all, are written by CFZ members, the only difference is that Jon doesn't take any money up front. The end result though is the same thing. A book that would not be published by any regular publisher, that will sell in the low hundreds at best, and most of the sales would be to other members of the CFZ family.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Waterstones, I was actually in the Braehead branch (Glasgow) last week, and I did peruse the "alternative" section amongst others. And I cannot say I saw your book. Which is a shame because it is one of the few books the CFZ have published recently that is of interest to me. On my next visit to either Inverness or Glasgow, I'll check out them again. I have a Waterstones account, so I may be able to order it.
You make an excellent point about civilised debate. I did try this at the start, it all goes back to the Killarney lake monster / birds video. I made several points about the video, and wishing to hear the original soundtrack, and enquiring about the involvement of Doc Shiels. When it was pointed out that the "story" kept changing, Jon took exception about my questioning of the Doc's integrity and banned me from posting on the CFZ youtube site and the CFZ blog.
This was the reason this blog was created. Jon was not prepared to allow difficult questions on his sites, so I needed a way to put my points forward. Hence the blog. Jon will no doubt say I was offensive and rude, but he still has not been able to provide proff of this. Not to worry.
I have no doubt there are a great many CFZ members who a decent folk and who's research is both honest and thorough. I just don't think those people are neccesserily the ones running the CFZ.
To anonymous, I have no problem with your actions. I have no wish to either persuade or dissuade people from getting involved with the CFZ. I just wish to put the facts out there and let the public decide. You have decided, my job is done.
ReplyDelete:o)
To triplow, see my answer to anonymous.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm wondering if you have the same Richard Freeman when you claim that "I have read numerous books by Richard Freeman"
Richard has only written three books by himself and one co-written with Jon Downes and Graham Inglis.
The three he has written are "Dragons More than a Myth", "Explore Dragons", and "The Great Yokai Encyclopedia; an A to Z of Japanese Monsters"
Although it semms he has a penchant for dragons and monsters, none of these books have any relevance to serious cryptozoology as you claim.
To GL Wilson.
ReplyDeleteI must confess, I was at a Weird Weekend several years ago. The line up then was far superior to the offerings this year. But then the CFZ was a different animal to what it is now.
TG Powell, I have never tried to lay clam to the Mande-Burung why should I? Neither have I laid claim to evidence found by anyone else. I have reported these things but never said I found them.
ReplyDeleteHighland Tiger, you saying that anyone make childish rants is like the pit calling the kettle black. You seem more infantile with each posting.
I have written a grand total of two book for the CZF, co edited some o the yearbooks and written parts of three expedition report books along with other expedition participants .This in my estimation does not make a majority of CFZ books. Many authors such as Michal Newton approached us to be published. Our authors are not just a stable of friends as you seem to think. Many of them I’ve never even met.
I take it that the ‘strange noise or shadow out side of your tent’ comment refers to the events in Russia? I have never claimed to see a yeti (or almasty to be correct). I claimed to see something walk past a tall door slightly ajar and block out moonlight and starlight to a height of seven feet. This occurred on an abandoned farm house. Adam Davis saw this too and can confirm it. We saw a shape that’s all. I think it may well have been an almasty but I can’t say for sure that it was and never claimed I knew for sure that it was. A shape is just a shape.
The prints I saw in Sumatra were far from indistinct, they were very clear. I have worked with all of the known great apes with the exception on pigmy chimps. I have seen their tracks in all kinds of mediums. These were radically different, having a longer, more human-like heel.
I have found many hairs on expeditions and brought them back to be testes. Until now all have been found to come from known species. But the hair collected on our last trip by native guide John Dimus and found close to the affore mentioned tracks has been shown to contain DNA akin to that of orang-utan. We hope further tests will show it is from a Sumatran orang-utan or something related to a Sumatran orang-utan.
I hope I find a witness who has seen a yeti as recently as that!
Animals and Men looks far, far better that the one piece of junk BCIB have managed to put out.
I reiterate, CFZ are going places and doing things. Your not.
PS We have got books in Waterstones. And I work for the CFZ through choice, because it’s the only organization in the UK doing proper cryptozoological work.
HT,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all congrats on the book you never wrote. I honestly wish I could demand instant cred like that. Amazing. I have to say HT, you are missing the point completely. As Jon quite clearly said over at the CFZ, Richard is such a great unqulaified zoologist (sorry now animal caretaker and the 2nd best in the world as far as Jon is concerened) that his disilusionment with the same course material that every qualified zoologist has to go through was his reason for not getting his degree. He was bored and far above and beyond what was being taught. The same general thing that gets taught to every qualified zoologist worldwide. Remember this was the esteemed Leeds University and not those terribly overrated places that teach zoology degrees like UCLA or Harvard. Hence why he is so great now that he publishes his own books instead of a major publishing company picking him up and pays for his own trips to India to look for an animal that is associated with a different country. I know its close but hey, curries in Nepal are not what they are in India hence the choice of location. Also I wonder if he could not have delayed this trip to pay for big cat hair testing?
Anyway, Richard has been replaced in his position by someone who is also not qualified as a zoologist (he was too cool for school also) but if you don't believe Jon that he is awesome too, you are crazy. It really is a circus as Jon describes it on the web site.
One more thing HT or pussy as his wife is now calling you. Asking someone else like Mark F to analyze hair samples is NOT asking them to pay for it. Do you understand? Therefore Mark F you should have never turned them down. You should have looked at that hair with your own eyes, said it wasn't a big cat and sent it back to them. There you go, problem solved and what about doing that costs money? Nothing but maybe a postage stamp (I'm sure it would not have arrived pre paid) so shame on you.
Oh and by the way Mr Freeman. Anyone who thinks a sensationalist peice of rubbish (best suited for a supermarket check out register) that the Fortean Times has become in recent years, is anything to boast about is obviously completely insane. As is anybody who is jealous of the CFZ.
To Richard Freeman
ReplyDeleteI havn't seen the BCIB book you are referring to, so I can't comment. But I do have many copies of Animals and Men, and you certainly can't convince anyone that the production values of that magazine are any better than your local school publication.
I honestly do wish you all the success on your yeti adventure, I just don't expect much from it.
First of all the CFZ never asked me to have their samples tested, I was emailed that from their blog. So that is not true. I am not qualified to look at hairs with my own eyes, (that is not how it is done) what is needed is a professional DNA testing done on the samples. The provisos were stupid, how do we return tested hairs, think about it.
ReplyDeleteThe last case I was involved in concerning hairs which were positively identified as belonging to leopard were carried out by the Bio Essex Sciences lab in Essex, (who incidentally received death threats for doing so – and no one is suggesting the CFZ made them, before anyone twists that one). The local police also sent samples to a lab in the USA. Both tests concurred. This is the kind of thing that the CFZ should have done. Not made snide comments which were untrue and stupid provisos. Incidentally we always make any evidence public.
And if we do not do proper cryptozoological work, it is a bit silly wanting us to do it isn’t it.
Lars Thomas is a professional why not take his word for it and then get the DNA testing done. Also Jonathan McGowan who has experience in this field confirmed with a visual examination that the hairs were leopard. Why is their word not good enough?
We have a QUALIFIED professor/zoologist with professional facilities and professional staff who will do testing for the BCIB.
Never mind shame on me, get your facts and knowledge right
Freeman, get real, here is what I posted
ReplyDelete"Jonathan, you have found leopard hairs, well done, and I mean genuinely well done. But in the future can you find evidence in the British countryside of big cats without resorting to attacking us. "We wish the CFZ well in their findings....... just get on with it without the nonsense, no one is interested in that!”
Everybody understood the snide remarks on the CFZ original post, and it was pointed out to us by several people. One or two who the CFZ claim to be friends of theirs. So in response we have what you see so far on your blogs etc, childish rants by Freeman, Mr Downes and the latest from Mrs Downes.
Now, that was all that I posted – the rest the world will decide for themselves. All decent honest intelligent people know and realise that continual attacks on groups and people will only result in negativity. Siding with one group or another is childish, and not what we are here for.
When I cut ties with the CFZ, I did not expect to be asked to have hairs DNA tested for them. You should have the facilities and contacts yourselves as a leading UK cryptozoological group. We have a QUALIFIED professor/zoologist with professional facilities and professional staff who will do testing for the BCIB.
The last case I was involved in concerning hairs which were positively identified as belonging to leopard were carried out by the Bio Essex Sciences lab in Essex, (who incidentally received death threats for doing so – and no one is suggesting you made them, before anyone twists that one). The local police also sent samples to a lab in the USA. Both tests concurred. This is the kind of thing that you should be doing. Not resorting to childish nonsense and making yourselves look stupid. Because whatever response you come back with, this is what you are doing. The more you all rant the more childish and more credibility you loose, each and every time. You need to conduct this research with your latest findings in a professional manner, present the findings in the same way to help save a little of your credibility over your find. I am sure with all your contacts you can find someone to advise you on this.
The BCIB do not claim to be professional cryptozoologists at all, we are people with a love of the subject and dedicated in finding that evidence. And if someone else finds it, we are actually quite delighted. The BCIB consist of housewives, senior police officers, truck drivers, ecologists, serving soldiers, accountants, lawyers, the list goes on and on. But the point is you do not find any of them attacking any other groups, we try and do what we do quietly and presenting the evidence when we come across it. And we will continue to do so, no matter how the CFZ will try and provoke us.
If you think I will lower myself to the gutter, and engage in a nonsensical war of words, school boy/girl nonsense that the rest of the adult world grew out of many years ago, then you are mistaken.
Continued
ReplyDeleteI will say here once again, I do not know who the Highland Tiger is, and I do not agree with anonymity at all. The Highland Tiger is not a member of the BCIB as far as I know. And if he or she is, I would no longer want them to be members, (the same goes for all the anonymous posters on this blog). So you would you please get your head round this and stop associating us as being connected.
Freeman, I also see in this post that you have resorted to personal threats on the Highland Tiger. So now the war of words ends and the threats of violence by the CFZ begins does it. You steep lower and lower into the depths of depravity. Would it be too much to ask for the CFZ to get on with what they are doing, without turning the UK crypto community into a world laughing stock; more to be pitied than anything else.
There is two choices either carry on with mindless senseless attacks on me and the BCIB, or get on with your research. We all know what decent and honest people would decide.
If the CFZ did get on with their research without the other nonsense, we would not be seeing anything of this at all.
To say that no other organisation is doing proper cryptozoological work is a damn right lie; there are several groups and many individuals. One of whom has just secured very good footage of a large cat in the UK. But he hasn’t gone round shouting it off the roof tops and attacking other people. He has gone about this in a professional manner. The results of which we shall all shortly see.
I noticed a quote on this blog which I agree wholeheartedly with.
“I have no doubt there are a great many CFZ members who a decent folk and who's research is both honest and thorough. I just don't think those people are necessarily the ones running the CFZ.”
Whatever happened to civilised debate? Of treating one another in a gentlemanly manner?
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which is a shame as the money for the yeti adventure could have gone towards the hair testing. However I am sure the yeti trip is being paid for by Mr Freeman himself and not from donations or membership fees.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the legal threats. Remember they know who you are and where you live. Not sure why this was mentioned by Mr Freeman but that has far more substance for legal action than anything on this blog so far.
Dear BCIB,
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the UK crypto community being a world laughing stock fear not. In the USA we have a blog called cryptomundo.
Sorry, I will be more specific seeing as you wish to split hairs..!! I have read THREE books written by Richard Freeman, including SEVERAL written by "OTHER ASSOCIATED MEMMBERS". Is that better for your understanding?
ReplyDelete"non of these books have any relevance to serious cryptozoology"
Perhaps in your narrow-minded, pedestrian outlook - NOT MINE! I consider "monsters" to be synonymous with cryptozoology, that is my opinion (to which I am entitled according to you) therefore, I still stand true to my comment. It's not what you perceive, it's how you perceive it.
Peace J
To Triplow, originally I did give you the benefit of the doubt. But I now doubt you have even read any of these books you profess to have. Mr Freemans latest book, about the japanese monsters, whilst of great interest cultural historians, fans of anime and comic book geeks, it has nothing at all to do with real creatures. Even Mr Freeman will agree with me on this point. His latest Yokai of the week was Gashadokuro
ReplyDelete"This grotesque yokai is a titanic animated skeleton fifteen times taller than a man. It is composed of the bones of people who died of starvation that have aggregated in to a huge canabalistic spirit. It is animated by the dead’s anger at their own horrid deaths."
As I said, its a great book for what it is, but it has nothing to do with real research looking for real animals. The fact that you think monsters are symonymous with cryptozoolgy, is a failure on the genuine cryptozoologist researchers on the world to educate the masses.
I suggest a little further reading outside of the back catalogue of the CFZ press. If you wish to learn more about cryptids there is a great cryptozological site
http://www.cryptozoology.com/
Here you will be able to converse with some of the worlds greatest authorities on this subject
There are entities in Richard's book that fall into the folklore of Japanese culture. Of course some of them sound ludicrous, but I know that there is often truth behind the old tales - especially in the UK.
ReplyDeleteSo, then, what do you classify the Wendigo, Spring-heeled Jack, the Gray Man of Ben Macdhui? They're all fictitious creatures dreamt up by early folklorists, right? If so, then why do people encounter things of this nature to this very day?
I have interviewed many people who have had encounters with bizarre entities, zooform creatures etc... They lay beyond conventional cryptozoology, but are otherwise classed as cryptids in my book!
Peace J
Sorry Tiger. Have to disagree with you there. Dick Raynor is the only person worthy of the great authority tag that visits and posts on cz.com. 50% of rest are mostly people who just want a debate to the death and who stoop to levels even lower than that expressed on this very comment thread. The rest don't show their true opinions due to fear of ridicule. Anyone that posts on that site can immediately get jumped on by the bossy alpha personalities who are regulars and who sit back and take enjoyment ripping them apart when all they are doing is trying to converse with people who have the same interest as them. A real shame it has to come off as such a battle ground but it does a lot of the time and you can't deny that. Just go there at any given time and you will see it. I am an ex forum member and have been visiting that site since 2004 so I know what I'm talking about. I went through the Mary Green TN debacle, the attack on the twin brothers who had the sightings of the sea serpent in Frisco bay and all of the other major bust ups that took place on cz.com forcing people to leave the forum or break into cyber tears. I go back every now and again to have a chuckle at the same people (and new) who haven't changed one bit in 6 years. I'm not saying there are not good people on there and sometimes some decent discussions but some of the regulars really need to calm down a bit. It is in my opinion a very classic example of why cryptozoology was so much better when we just had books and our own opinions, not the internet. I know you are going to disagree with me and I respect that but in my opinion to elevate it by calling it great and above this discussion, the cfz or any other site on the net is just incorrect.
ReplyDeleteIn that case John, you and I will have to agree to disagree to the definition of a cryptid.
ReplyDeleteFor me, a cryptid has to fall within the realms of reality and be generally classed as an animal of some description.
The creatures you describe are variations on the human form, and to me you are then deliving into the realms of folklore. Next you'll be telling me that you believe in werewolves, vampires, fairies at the bottom of the garden, and the world leaders including the Queen being a race of shape-shifting lizard people. All of these things people have reported to have encountered every year.
You are falling into the trap of believing something, just because someone claims to have seen it. Believe nothing without solid proof. It's the only way.
The only way HT is to investigate these peoples claims, disbelieving them is not the way either. And this question has always been in debate, what is a cryptid and where do you draw the line. Problem is many people are reporting bizarre entities and will continue to do so I guess.
ReplyDeleteTo anonymous.
ReplyDeleteYes you have a point, the CZ.com is not the same as it was years ago. Unfortunately the teens and creationists found the site and have lowered it considerably.
I too watched the whole shooting match with regards to Mary Green, and although some of the abuse was way over the top, Mary was the creator of her own downfall. She fell for the story hook line and sinker, and has had trouble extricating herself from the mess.
I never understood the ridicule the Clarke Brothers recieved over their sea serpent sighting. They never changed their story, and were prepared to give people copies of their footage free of charge. I know because they were kind enough to do so for me. Although I disagreed with their conclusions, they were always courteous and pleasant, and did not deserve the treatment handed out.
But in saying all that, it is the only place online where every topic, from glow in the dark Ropens, to chupacabras and dinos in Africa can be discussed.
It is also a great place to find reports of newly discovered animals. Which in reality, is was cryptozoology is really about.
I would rather read reports of a new rat species from Laos, a new deep sea fish, and the latest Ivory billed woodpecker sighting, than someone wandering Asia looking for a Yeti.
Don't get me wrong I am very much like that, but I don't rule it out because it sounds outrageous. I believe in many cases that certain factors can "influence" the human brain into thinking its seen, for example, fairies... at the bottom of the garden, like you say. Then again, I've had my own experiences that I have not yet found an explanation for.
ReplyDeleteWe obviously come from different angles, which doesn't necessarily mean either of us is wrong. ;-)
Peace J
Hi Tiger,
ReplyDeleteFirstly, I can't say that I am a cryptozoologist at all, I have a simple interest in it, an interest that I had in my teens in the early 90's that I recently rekindled about 5 to 6 years ago. I have not read a lot, I know enough of the basic stories of creatures and sightings around the world, and I live for truth as well. Yet I not stupid either. I am a good judge of character and I have no time for awful people who just want to constantly judge others without reason. I met Jon Downes and the CFZ crew a few years ago when I went to the Weird Weekend. And I can say that for the 3 and a half months I visited the UK for, I never met a bunch of people who were so kind and generous as the CFZ people, and I met FANTASTIC people during that whole trip. I still maintain that the CFZ people were the best of that holiday. I did not really want the Weird Weekend to end. I am a nobody in the cryptozoology scene, as I was back then, but they still treated me wonderfully and adopted me as a friend. I love and adore these people, who love their community like family. They are not vain, selfish, upstarts who believe everything they encounter, and if you have met them, you would realize this. But I am assuming you have not attempted to meet them at all. If you did, you might not think this way, but then I know all too well, not everyone gets along with everyone. I am sure Jon is sorry if he hurt you at some point unintentionally, but you are your own problem now, you are not Jon's problem. Jon is not an unpleasant, unapproachable person at all, and I can't say I agree with you about him. Jon does stand corrected. I know him enough to know that he will be quite happy to be proven wrong about something if the evidence came up. He always says 'you decide' when he posts something unusual up, and has no great or perfect explanation for it. The cryptozoological world is probably sorry that they cannot satisfy you at all. I have never met you, but am not sure I care to now, as you are not being fair. I think wanting the 'truth' as you say it is a hard thing to demand instantly. I don't believe every story I hear (as I said I am not stupid) but I love the paranormal and the strange, and I am happy to hear a tale and explore the curiosity of the sighting. So do the CFZ. I have never heard them claim to 'believe' everything they see, I have read some of Richard F's account of his almasty adventure and never did he say he claimed to know what was going on cryptozoologically in that part of the world. The world is not black and white, Tiger.
I can't claim I know what goes on here in Victoria, Australia, because I don't get out there into the field. But then nor can a local friend who goes out A LOT to search for the 'truth' with ABC's, but at least he goes out there and searches. He doesn't have an answer, but at least he goes out there. I don't do any fieldwork. Have you done any? Or do you just sit behind a computer and judge results from there? I hope you do go out and start to explore one day if you haven't already. I know the CFZ do save madly to go on expeditions because they love it. It's their dream to do that, finding something or not! I hope to travel with them one day myself. Had you been a nice person on the internet, you might have been welcome to go too. I know they have a lot of fun on their trips, finding cryptids or not. Why not calm down and do things for the fun of it. For the LOVE of it.
TANIA POOLE
Another thing Tiger, I hope you realize that life is too short for the kind of bickering you are doing. From my experience, I am a nice person and RARELY meet someone who does not like me. Those that I do meet that don't like me, I have noticed usually have some psychological issue, that I discover is their problem and not mine. I usually stay away from them if I disagree or don't like them because of their behaviour towards me or my friends. You may be amazed how people get things wrong about nice people. I prefer not to fight and argue. Tiger, it appears you get stressed out or annoyed with people when stories change, or people can't prove something. I guess you may need to get over it, and try to have descent discussions. I see that you say to attempted this, but obviously you did not try hard enough, or apologise, and now you always want to find fault in others. I am sorry if you have been hurt in the past by someone - (usually that is the case when someone like you attacks others on something mundane like the internet) but I think you should speak to someone (offline) like a therapist to calm you down because, I don't think confrontations on the internet is very healthy, because the anger only goes as far as the keyboard. Life is too short Tiger, I certainly hope you manage to love life and enjoy what you can from it without making the world angry at you.
ReplyDeletePEACE!
Dear Tania, I have no wish to dissuade you from being friends with the people from the CFZ. I aim to put out the facts, and let people dea with them as they wish.
ReplyDeleteYou ask whether I have met any of the CFZ. I can assure you I have, and like you I once thought they were a decent group of people, (in fact most of them still are). However over the last few years, my views have changed regarding certain members, and the way they treat other organisations, researchers and authors, who they don't agree with. You only have to look at Richard Freemans comments here, to see what I mean. And this is not the only place that Richard has tried to besmirch the reputations of others. He has done the same in the Fortean Times. Only a few months ago, he poured scorn on the work of Patrick Harpur in the FT. Which coincidently was only a few weeks after another prominant CFZ member Neil Arnold poured scorn on the work of Patrick's sister Merrily Harpur. Now I don't subscribe to either Patricks or Merrily's conclusions, but I certainly wouldn't sneeringly disrespect them in print, to the level these CFZ members did.
There is a nasty undercurrent in the CFZ which feels the need to attack other researchers. Strangely they don't seem to like it when I comment on these facts, and show them for what they are.
It seems a long way back that I posted the first comments back under anonymous and hasn’t this grown into you most commented on blog. I have found a few interesting points that I would like to highlight regarding a possible bias.
ReplyDeleteI believe the quote from Richard Freeman in the Fortean Times (FT263:70 June 2010) that you refer to is as follows.
‘What a shame I can't be equally enthusiastic about "The Random Directory of the
Damned" entry on Monsters of the Lakes (FT260:50-53), which fawns over Michael
Meurger's god-awful book "Lake Monster Traditions" (Fortean Tomes, 1988). This
is one of the worst books I've ever read, (and that's up against some stiff
competition!). Apart from Patrick Harpur's "Daimonic Reality" (Viking Arcana
1994). It is the only book I have had to actively force myself to finish
reading.’
On reading your comments you would have to say that the attack you refer to is one on Patrick Harpur alone, well it is the only one you seem to focus on. I and I think many others can see another book mentioned Lake Monster Traditions by Michael Meurger which is equally billed as not very good. However mentioning Meurger would not suit you target fixated slight on Richard Freeman. It appears you are being very selective in your use of quotes. Perhaps you wish to paint Richard Freeman in the darkest tones possible
You also mention Neil Arnold pouring scorn on Merrily Harpur it appears that you are referring to a passage that you quote else where in your blog it reads as follows
‘a) are completely deluded by thinking these animals have some more esoteric, or even prehistoric explanation,’
I don’t know if it is just me but I don’t see any names mentioned. In fact the first time I see names attached to this it is on your blog and has been written by you and reads as follows
‘So, we get to the nitty gritty here. Neil Arnold thinks that Merrily Harpur and Di Francis, the two main writers on the theories he mentions are deluded.’
So it is you Highland Top Cat who decides that he is referring to Merrily Harpur and Di Francis. Of course in your comments regarding the CFZ attacking the Harpurs you miss out Di Francis, perhaps you just forgot her or is it because it does not suit the agenda you a peddling.
Another point that you strive to make is that somehow the CFZ are a Vanity Press earlier in this long line of comments you yourself state.
‘Yes you are correct with the exact definition of a vanity press, in that people pay to get a book published, and make any profits by selling the books themselves. However I see little difference between that and what the CFZ Press does. Most of the titles if not all, are written by CFZ members; the only difference is that Jon doesn't take any money up front. The end result though is the same thing. A book that would not be published by any regular publisher, that will sell in the low hundreds at best, and most of the sales would be to other members of the CFZ family.,
You acknowledge the definition of a vanity press, you see that it does not fit the CFZ but still insist on comparing it to one. You can not have this both ways are you saying it is a vanity press or do you accept that it is not.
It seems a long way back that I posted the first comments back under anonymous and hasn’t this grown into you most commented on blog. I have found a few interesting points that I would like to highlight regarding a possible bias.
ReplyDeleteI believe the quote from Richard Freeman in the Fortean Times (FT263:70 June 2010) that you refer to is as follows.
‘What a shame I can't be equally enthusiastic about "The Random Directory of the
Damned" entry on Monsters of the Lakes (FT260:50-53), which fawns over Michael
Meurger's god-awful book "Lake Monster Traditions" (Fortean Tomes, 1988). This
is one of the worst books I've ever read, (and that's up against some stiff
competition!). Apart from Patrick Harpur's "Daimonic Reality" (Viking Arcana
1994). It is the only book I have had to actively force myself to finish
reading.’
On reading your comments you would have to say that the attack you refer to is one on Patrick Harpur, well it is the only one you seem to focus on. I and I think many others can see another book mentioned Lake Monster Traditions by Michael Meurger which is equally billed as not very good. However mentioning Meurger would not suit you target fixated slight on Richard Freeman. It appears you are being very selective in your use of quotes. Perhaps you wish to paint Richard Freeman in the darkest tones possible
And there is more
ReplyDeleteYou also mention Neil Arnold pouring scorn on Merrily Harpur it appears that you are referring to a passage that you quote else where in your blog it reads as follows
‘a) are completely deluded by thinking these animals have some more esoteric, or even prehistoric explanation,’
I don’t know if it is just me but I don’t see any names mentioned. In fact the first time I see names attached to this it is on your blog and has been written by you and reads as follows
‘So, we get to the nitty gritty here. Neil Arnold thinks that Merrily Harpur and Di Francis, the two main writers on the theories he mentions are deluded.’
So it is you Highland Top Cat who decides that he is referring to Merrily Harpur and Di Francis. Of course in your comments regarding the CFZ attacking the Harpurs you miss out Di Francis, perhaps you just forgot her or is it because it does not suit the agenda you a peddling.
Another point that you strive to make is that somehow the CFZ are a Vanity Press earlier in this long line of comments you yourself state.
‘Yes you are correct with the exact definition of a vanity press, in that people pay to get a book published, and make any profits by selling the books themselves. However I see little difference between that and what the CFZ Press does. Most of the titles if not all, are written by CFZ members; the only difference is that Jon doesn't take any money up front. The end result though is the same thing. A book that would not be published by any regular publisher, that will sell in the low hundreds at best, and most of the sales would be to other members of the CFZ family.,
You acknowledge the definition of a vanity press, you see that it does not fit the CFZ but still insist on comparing it to one. You can not have this both ways are you saying it is a vanity press or do you accept that it is not.
Gosh, what a set-to! The last time I saw a tear-up like this was when I looked at the Stormfront neo-Nazi message board. No offence, ladies and gents, but why do "eccentric" Outsiders always do their enemy's job for them by clubbing each other over their heads like a set of cartoon characters from Wacky Races?
ReplyDeleteAnyway, Merrily Harpur told me personally, over a sherry, that she regarded herself as a world authority on the ABC (Anomalous Big Cats) phenomenon. Now, you might want to aim some spitballs in her direction, but, as far as I'm concerned, you cryptofolk are chasing rainbows, and I think she's more correct than you are. And so is the self-acknowledged charlatan "Doc" Shiels, for that matter. But that's my opinion, for what it's worth. However, I do not have a degree in ghost hunting or reading tealeaves.
I'm not a crypto-character, but I think you should all sit down with a nice cup of tea, a biscuit or two, and a copy of Living Wonders by Robert Rickard and John Michell. Now there's a book worth reading, vanity or no. Breath deeply . . . relax . . . and wait until the fur stops flying. Some hopes, eh? I bet you'll be at each other's throats in no time!
Hi Tiger,
ReplyDeleteIsn't that the Harpur's problem, not yours?
Did Jon actually do anything to YOU? I have seen your behaviour before. It's classic. In a community I know, people just like you constantly rag out on people for being 'rude' to others, when those said people always manage to do a lot worse themselves, deluding naive people into believing they are the victims. I am sure you don't want to hear the psychological and mental health issues of the sad, bored people I am talking about. I certainly hope you stop worrying about such issues as other people, Tiger. I am being honest when I say you really don't need to lower yourself. You're making things your problem when you don't need to.
Hey great beast, I certainly understand you completely, even though I decided I had to say something.
Also, I am not sure I want to know the 'facts' and 'truth' about everything in this world. I'd rather be unbiased and take each day as it comes, meeting people, enjoying their company and dealing with those who decide to hurt me for no sane reason. I have never needed to know 'facts' or 'truth' to get by in life, and I've survived just fine with mystery and not letting things be my problem. Sure, I live to tell the 'truth,' but I don't demand it from others. So I don't really care to hear it from you. Usually those professing 'truth' are actually nowhere near it. Don't burden yourself. It's sure to be downfall.
ReplyDeleteAre you actually interested in cryptozoology or just criticizing people interested in cryptozoology? If its the latter, then I'd just let it go if I were you.
Be at Peace...
Dear Tania, thank you for your comments.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I'm not really sure what your intentions really are. You obviously are looking at this from the outside and have little knowledge of the points that have been raised.
Forgive me though, if I ignore your "advice". You may be genuine in your sentiments, but I have no need to listen to someone who does not have any of the facts, and appears to like to dabble in pseudo-psychology, dishing out advice to people who neither requested it nor need it.
You state "I am not sure I want to know the 'facts' and 'truth' about everything in this world". I find that very sad, but you are pefrectly enititled to that view.
Like everyone else, if you don't like to read about facts and truth, you will excercise your right not to read this blog in the future.
HT
Tania, listen dear. We need you to stop wondering off topic with these dreamy posts you keep putting on here about flowers and world peace. You won't be stopped from doing it but it's like trying to bring someone up to speed on world war 2. It's a little too far in the past and way too much has happened that you don't know about. Please stop posting if you are not prepared to do quite a lot of reading first which includes all of the CFZ blog and all of HT's blog here so you can form your own opinion. It's just really frustrating after the first few sentences.
ReplyDeleteGreatbeast - You are running a close 2nd for most pointless comment on this post. Go back to reading neo nazi message boards and having dilusional thoughts that Doc Shiels is anything more than an insane trickster.
Please people no matter what side you are on or opinion you have please stay slightly on topic.
Apologies — I just thought it would be fun to write the only well-written, properly spelled, grammar-friendly post on this entire blog. And I can do that in my sleep! What are you? A bunch of myopic teens wearing gardening gloves? Anyway, I couldn't resist having a pop at you lot and your pointless chattering and sniping. As for you, Mr Anonymous, your comments suggest you're a bit too dumb (or maybe just not old enough) to "get" even the most simple of my responses, so I ask you — is your involvement in "cryptozoology" largely a compensation for social ineptitude? I think we know the answer to that, don't we?
ReplyDeleteOh how intellectual and above everyone else you are. Is "eh" really a word to use that gives cause to then go on about well written and grammar?
ReplyDeleteI think we all know what people who use the word gosh in modern day writing get up to in their spare time, don't we? I'm sure greatbeast is a worthy nickname probably given to you by several alter boys and freinds of the theater.
I'm sure you wish I wasn't old enough.
P.S. If you stopped pumping her full of sherry maybe she would stop illustrating like it was toilet comic book humour from 1978.
See you around Dorset
I'm curious to know the names of the CFZ members who Richard Freeman claims have spoken at the Natural History Museum, on what date, to whom did they speak, their academic credentials and what was the (implied) Cryptozoological/Fortean subject of their presentation(s)?
ReplyDeleteHere you go Bagman - why not use Google? All the answers you seek...
ReplyDeletehttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4757164480247263212&q=source:004570682933049332681&hl=en#
http://www.forteantimes.com/strangedays/events/1119/a_beginners_guide_to_cryptozoology.html
Does this blog actually have a purpose other than attacking the CFZ? I suspect not, so it should have a short shelf life.
To those under fire, in the words of Neil Young, Don't Let It Bring You Down!
An enquiry born of a statement rather than an attack, so in that spirit thank you for the links...
ReplyDeleteInteresting, but the talk within falls short of being a formal presentation of data to a learned audience (pref at the NHM), which was more the kind of thing I was asking about.
Appearing in a room hired out by the Fortean Times is not the same as being invited to speak by the Grant Museum or UCL.
ReplyDeletePrecisely. A layperson can be easily impressed by carefully ambiguous wording...
ReplyDeleteFor example; Freemans Wikipedia entry (as I write) states that he started studying Zoology at Leeds, joining the CFZ when the course ended- however it does not state whether he graduated or not.
If he did not, then it is very unlikely a scientific institution as the NHM would directly invite him to lecture on any serious level about crypto or actual zoology.
If in fact they did, then I would simply like to know about the actual context. No hardship surely?
Richard Freeman is a known liar and has claimed in interviews in the past that he passed his Zoology degree. (He has since denied he ever made that claim, but as you can see below he has proved to be lying again.) He did NOT get any zoological qualifications, he left before any exams were taken. Since my outing of him, he has changed his story and is now claiming he deliberately left the course because *he knew more about animals than the course lecturers". Make of that what you will.
ReplyDeleteYou may read the following quotes in interviews Richard has given in the past.
http://www.binnallofamerica.com/rr2.6.9.html
The Centre for Fortean Zoology is the only full time scientific organisation dedicated to cryptozoology, the study of unknown species of animal. I came upon a copy of the society's journal Animals & Men in the now defunct Potter's Museum of Curiosities in Cornwall. I started to write for them, became the Yokshire rep then, AFTER I FINISHED MY ZOOLOGY DEGREE, I was invited down to work with them on a perminant basis.
But in this interview he says the opposite.
http://ghastlydoor.com/interview-with-richard-freeman/
My qualification is as a zoo keeper. I did study zoology at Leeds but I was appalled at the lack of knowledge of the tutors! For example they had no idea how many species of crocodilian there were (23 known) or what the Latin name of the thylacine was (Thylacinus cynocephalus).Some of their text books were 30 years out of date. One ‘professor’ in particular gave lectures on how sauropod dinosaurs lived habitually in water (it has been know for decades that they lived on dry land like elephants) and continually confused triceratops with protoceratops (the former from North America, 30 feet long and ten tons, the latter from Mongolia and the size of a sheep) and mammoths with mastodons. I just threw up my arms in despair at the state of academia and said ‘fuck this’. I would not have made those errors as a ten year old but professors in a major university were making them!
For the record, he has no Zoo keeper qualifications either. And I challenge him to prove me wrong, or even to give the general public a list of the zoo's he worked at, and the time spent at those zoo's and of course the reasons he left those establishments.
As you can see, both interviews cannot be correct, and of course, THE TRUTH WILL OUT.
Also check out this interview
ReplyDeletehttp://www.metro.co.uk/showbiz/interviews/11204-60-seconds-richard-freeman
Where Richard Freeman lies again...
"I do not do this as a hobby. It is my profession. I am a qualified and professional zoologist. I was the head of reptiles at one of Britain's biggest zoos and have studied more than 400 species. I'm not an amateur."
He is not a qualified zoologist and he has never been head of reptiles at the zoo in question. Again I challenge him to prove me wrong. He could tell the public the name of the zoo, (although I already know it), and we can easily contact them to ask if he was the "head" of anything.
On the Amazon page advertising his Dragon book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dragons-More-than-Richard-Freeman/dp/095128729X claims "In 1996 he took a degree in zoology at Leeds university and after graduation moved to Exeter to work full time as the Zoological Director of the Centre for Fortean Zoology,"
I've not read the book, but I wonder if this claim is actually printed in the book under the Authors biography.
Interestingly the publisher of his Dragon book makes the following claim "Richard Freeman is a former zookeeper and has a degree in zoology."
http://www.hoap.co.uk/explore.htm
You can still see here on the CFZ's own pages that....."Richard Freeman is one of Britain's few professional cryptozoologists. His interest in unknown animals reaches back to his childhood and he has had a long and varied career working with exotic creatures. He was head curator of reptiles at Twycross zoo in the Midlands. In 1996 he took a degree in zoology at Leeds university and after graduation moved to Exeter to work full time as the Zoological Director of the Centre for Fortean Zoology, the UK`s only cryptozoological organisation."
http://www.cfz.org.uk/conferences/weirdweekend/ww2007/ww072.htm
How about here.
http://www.bitememagazine.com/article-richard-freeman.html
"I took a degree in zoology at Leeds University"
The CFZ continued to state that no-one at the CFZ or Richard himself ever claimed that he had a zoology degree. If so, then how have so many interviews and even his publisher gone away with the impression he has one.
I could find you many more examples, but you can make your own minds up on the type of person Richard Freeman is. The facts are all there.
Just a final postscript.
ReplyDeleteRichard Freemans recent interview regarding his complaints about the quality of his zoological lecturers appears to be the first time he has ever mentioned this in the media.
It makes one wonder what has changed from a few years ago where he was desperate to mention in interviews that he was a qualified zoologist from Leeds University, to today where he pours scorn on the very same university.
Oh yes, I know, it must be something I said.
That's all folks!!
Who is Jonathon mcgowen and have the leopard hairs he found been made puplic? Im a cfz fan but currently going off them very fast!
ReplyDeleteWhy is it cfz people cant seem to manage a straight answer to a straight question??
Bilbo